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Gen. James L. Jones Jr. was promoted to four-star rank on 30 June 1999 and assumed his current post as the Marine Corps' 32nd commandant the following day. His 33-year career has been accented by command assignments with forward-deployed Marines and marked with combat service in Vietnam where--as a platoon and company commander--he earned the Silver Star for heroism. As the commanding officer of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit in 1990 and 1991, he led Marines into Turkey and northern Iraq during U.S. humanitarian-relief operations following Operation Desert Storm. While serving as the deputy director for operations at the U.S. European Command in 1993, he was reassigned as chief of staff for Joint Task Force Provide Promise. In that post he played a critical role in directing humanitarian-relief airdrops into Bosnia-Herzegovina, overseeing support to the United Nations Protective Force, and coordinating U.S. participation in U.N. border-monitoring operations in Macedonia. Following promotion to major general in 1994, Jones was assigned as commanding general, 2nd Marine Division. He later served as the director of the Expeditionary Warfare Division, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, followed by duty as the deputy chief of staff for plans, policies, and operations at Headquarters Marine Corps. Jones served as the military assistant to the secretary of defense for three years before his promotion to general and assignment as Marine Corps commandant. Having spent his formative years in France, he returned to the United States to attend the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service, from which he received a bachelor of science degree in 1966. He graduated from the National War College in 1985.
 

Arthur P. Brill Jr. interviewed Gen. James L. Jones Jr. for this issue of Sea Power.
 

Sea Power: Although it is early in your term as commandant, what is your evaluation of today's Marine Corps?

JONES: I've visited most of our major commands in the past four months, and this is the best Marine Corps I have seen in almost 33 years of service. I've seen several different Marine Corps in that time, and this is the best. In the mid-1970s we were spending 90 percent of our time on the 10 percent of the people who weren't performing. Today the nonachievers are down to about one percent.

There is nothing broken in today's Corps. If I did nothing in the next four years the organization would flourish. The Marines we have today would make that happen. The Marine Corps is better today than it was yesterday, and it will be even better tomorrow.

In what ways will the Corps be better?

JONES: It is the role of all Marines to improve the Corps. This is progress. Generally, we are making Marines well today, but to ensure that we succeed in future battles we need to focus more on our operating forces. They need more people, for example, and we are going to solve that problem.

We have a quality force today, but I think too many rules and regulations were aimed over the years at the small number of nonachievers. These rules should focus instead on the 99 percent of Marines who are performing. In addition, we need to rejuvenate some of our capabilities such as intelligence, reconnaissance, and artillery. Our training could be coordinated better, and we are looking at some other things.

What was the rationale behind the Commandant's Guidance that you issued on July 1st, the day after you assumed office?

JONES: A passage of command is a good time to reflect, especially as we near the end of the century. I thought long and hard about today's Corps and where we should be headed.

The Guidance is philosophical, not directional in nature. It doesn't tell you to do a darn thing. Instead, it is a reflection of my experience and how I see the Marine Corps. It is an easy read, and I hope our Marines buy into it. The Guidance isn't specific, because it is my nature to be more philosophical.

Can you briefly summarize the key points in your Guidance?

JONES: We have a quality Marine Corps today. I truly believe that when our Marines get up in the morning, they will try to do the right thing. We should trust them to do that, and they should trust us to do the right thing by them. We must learn to say "yes" to them for reasonable requests, and we should tolerate their mistakes if they stumble. There is nothing more important than the operating forces, and they deserve more attention. Marines should place their units before themselves. Finally, our families are important, and they deserve a quality life, along with all Marines.

You mentioned "commanders' intent" in your Guidance. Can you explain that?

JONES: Commanders' intent is a marvelous way to communicate with your subordinates. You issue broad guidance in clear and understandable terms about what you want them to accomplish or what you want them to find out. You don't get too detailed and tell them how to do it. They, in turn, take your guidance and decide how they are going to achieve it. In doing so, it commits them to that responsibility.

It is not my nature to be very specific and give detailed instructions, because I really believe in commanders' intent and how they communicate our orders.

You have formed a strong bond with the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps, haven't you?

JONES: While it wasn't an easy choice because we had so many qualified candidates, selecting Sergeant Major Al [Alford] McMichael for the top enlisted job in the Marine Corps was one of the best decisions I have made as commandant. We have a partnership-type relationship, and for the next four years we are going to be a team that will tell the same message. We will fight to keep the social bond that ties the senior leadership of the Corps to the junior elements.

Those young Marines are the future of the Corps, not us. The officer and enlisted ranks must stay tight. That is very important. It is one of the reasons the Marine Corps has been so successful over the years.

Your Marine recruiters are amazing the experts by their success month after month. Can they continue?

JONES: I think so. Our recruiters have a very difficult job, and their success is vital. The key points in the Commandant's Guidance are doable because we have good people. More importantly, the missions and the battles of tomorrow will continue to require quality Marines, so we cannot lower our standards.

Why are your recruiters so successful?

JONES: The entire Corps is focused on it, and our recruiters work very hard. We have a band of warriors out there that is tied together from top to bottom, from generals to privates. They consider their mission to be a combat mission, and they prepare like it is one. They have a campaign plan with the same warrior ethic--and they attack, they win, and they succeed.

The performance of our Marines who deploy plays a role too. When our nation calls, like it did in Kosovo, our Marines get the job done. But in the end, it is those recruiters who have the pressure to perform, and they are doing well.

Do you have any concerns about Marine retention?

JONES: We are currently retaining more than enough quality Marines, both officers and enlisted, across the whole rank and MOS [military occupational specialty] spectrum for us to do the job. This also includes pilots.

However, I am concerned about those Marines who do not complete their initial enlistments each year. Although this is better than the other services, we have to find ways to lower that number. Every Marine we save is one less the recruiters have to enlist.

Are you losing Marines in their first enlistments because of a zero-defect mentality?

JONES: Yes, some of them. I worry that we have become a zero-defect society. We are an imperfect people trying to do the perfect thing. That is a noble goal, but we shouldn't hold people to such extreme standards that can't possibly be met.

If I didn't have compassionate leaders who helped me when I was coming up, I wouldn't be sitting here today. They developed me when I was a young officer, and they tolerated mistakes because they made them themselves. We are going to move away from a zero-defect mentality.

Isn't there a danger of your nonachievers taking advantage of that?

JONES: We have quality Marines. None of them get up in the morning and say to themselves, "how can I make Jim Jones miserable today?" These Marines were taught the Core Values, and they know right from wrong.

There are certain things no commander can tolerate, such as stealing or taking illegal drugs. These are deliberate actions or acts of commission by that individual, and they will have to suffer the consequences. Moving away from the zero-defect mentality doesn't mean you can do something reckless or stupid. It does mean that errors of omission can be forgiven.

When a leader judges somebody, I expect them to make sure that they judge them in the context of the good of the whole, not because that person irritated them or made them look bad. That's not what leadership is about. Leadership is about mentoring, education, and forming a bond. None of that works without good people. I am telling our leaders that we have great people, and we are going to take care of them. We are going to trust them, and we are going to tolerate mistakes.

How do you view the relationship between the Marine Corps and the Navy?

JONES: Wherever you go around the world you find a Navy-Marine team on the tip of the spear. I believe that when a Navy person serves with a Marine unit he or she is a part of us.

I remind my Marines that no Marine Corps will ever succeed without a strong Navy partnership. Having served in the operating forces, I know the strong bond that exists between the Navy and the Marines. The CNO [Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jay L. Johnson] and I want to see that same relationship in Washington, D.C. Things are going fine.

Do you see less squabbling over limited naval resources and funding?

JONES: The CNO and I are "joined at the hip," plus we genuinely like each other. We have reinstituted regular meetings of "The Big Eight" to discuss key issues. [The "Big Eight" consists of Jones, Johnson, their deputies, and the two flag-rank members from each service who administer funds, programs, plans, and operations.]

The Navy-Marine team is the most unique team in warfighting history. We are going to enhance it to allow for the resurfacing of brigades. We also are harmonizing both Operational Maneuver From the Sea [OMFTS]--the Corps' capstone warfighting concept for the 21st century and "Forward ... From the Sea," [the key Navy strategic concept] in ways that work for both services.

Will the Marine Corps add brigade-size units to its menu of deployable assets?

JONES: Actually, we never lost that capability. Brigades were going strong before the Gulf War, and we had it right then. After Desert Storm, the standard Marine expeditionary brigade [MEB] headquarters was rolled into our largest operational organization, the Marine expeditionary force [MEF]. If a brigade-size force was needed, it was called a "MEF Forward," not a brigade. As a result, the term disappeared and the Corps has become MEF- and MEU- [Marine expeditionary unit] centric.

I want the joint world to know that we also have a middle-tier [brigade-size] capability. People understand brigades, not "MEF Forwards." Although it might require merely changing the terminology, we are looking at the best way of reestablishing that middle tier.

Many people think that the value of unit inspections is the time spent by the troops preparing for them. Why do you advocate "no-notice" inspections?

JONES: The operating forces in the Marine Corps should be ready at all times. I believe the best readiness inspections for these units are no-notice types. Too often, units start preparing three months in advance before an inspector-general or commanding-general level inspection. These endless pre-inspections take away from valuable training time. Too many Marines spend their hard-earned money replacing serviceable uniforms and 782 [combat] gear merely because it will look better for the inspectors.

These inspections are a waste of time and money. When I commanded the 2nd Marine Division [at Camp Lejeune, N.C.] we banned announced inspections. We got good results. The important thing in an inspection is to find out if the troops have the required gear, if it is serviceable, and if they know how to use it. From now on, inspector-general and commanding-level inspections will not be announced. The philosophy of our inspection system should be to find out how good units are--not how bad they are.

How are you going to increase the strength of your operating forces in the Corps?

JONES: About eight months ago an internal Force Structure Planning Group [FSPG] came in with some very interesting recommendations. Although we are looking to structure the Corps for the 2010 to 2015 time frame when we start executing OMFTS, the FSPG looked primarily at the near term to 2005. They concluded that our present and future missions require an adjustment to our end strength of up to 7,000 Marines.

There is no doubt that our Marines are busy, that we are short in some MOSs, and that we need more people in our operational units. But before we go to Congress with such a request, we are going to see if we can fix it internally. We want to make sure that we are organized to fight the way we want. We want the right people with the right skills in the right place at the right time to do what the nation expects.

We discussed these matters in our General Officer Symposium. By November, we hope to have the FSPG and other key issues resolved internally. Right now, I am planning for those decisions to be made at a session of our senior Marine leadership in late October.

Will the Corps continue to rely on the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab?

JONES: Yes. Experimentation is important, and we hope to do more of it in the future. A study was released recently that suggests that the Marine Corps would be an ideal Department of Defense test bed because of our small size and our Marine Air Ground Task Force makeup.

I agree. Knowing the Corps as I do, we would take on those projects without delay, test and evaluate them thoroughly, and report on them honestly and quickly. It is much better for us to test new concepts, gear, and weapons systems than to inherit them.

How important will the Marine Corps Reserve be in the future?

JONES: I am a firm believer in the Total-Force concept. I had the pleasure recently to observe a Reserve rifle company from Topson [Maine] training at our Jungle Warfare Training Center on Okinawa. They could not have been more enthusiastic.

Reserves are an important part of our Marine family, and when the bell rings they will continue to join our active units for contingencies around the world. They are important here at home in another sense. I think it is vital that the military stay connected with the American people. Our citizens should understand what we do. Who can do that better than our 42,000 Marine Reserves?

Our Reserves, along with the National Guard, also will play a vital role in Homeland Defense. In the next 10 years our borders will become even more vulnerable to terrorists and to others who will try to do us harm in many ways, including using weapons of mass destruction. In Homeland Defense, our Reserves will be the supported command, and it will be the active forces that will support them.

As we near the end of this century, what in your opinion was the most significant moment in Marine Corps history over the past 100 years?

JONES: I think it was the flag-raising over Mt. Suribachi on Iwo Jima in 1945. In my view, the capture of that island and the symbol of that flag-raising gave birth to the modern Marine Corps. We are going to recognize that memorable event at our birthday celebration in Washington, D.C., on November 10th.

This final Marine Corps birthday in the 20th century will be a nostalgic one, won't it?

JONES: Absolutely. We inherited a great legacy. This is the time to pause and think about the warriors who went before us. Because of them, we have total freedom and opportunity. We are about to turn the page into a new century, and we are anticipating the future. But we will always remember the past.

Those warriors of 50 years ago spawned an era of prosperity, democracy, and primacy for this nation that is the envy of the world. I am proud that my father and uncle were members of that "greatest generation," as Tom Brokaw calls it. So, on the 224th birthday of our Corps and in the weeks ahead, we should reflect on the past. These warriors are looking at us and asking themselves a very fair question: "Will we measure up? Will we be as good as they were?"

That is a tremendous challenge and responsibility, but I think today's Marines will make them proud. And tomorrow's Marines will be even better.

When did you decide to make the Marine Corps a career?

JONES: It was after my combat tour as a rifle platoon commander in Vietnam in 1968. That experience showed me that I was destined to be a U.S. Marine as long as the institution would have me. I liked the responsibility I got from my seniors, the loyalty I received from my subordinates, and the enjoyment of being with my peers. I committed myself then, and I have had no regrets.

You say you enjoyed being with your peers. Do you think Marines are having as much fun today as you and your fellow Marines had 31 years ago?

JONES: I have seen a change in our culture in the last decade. People are not taking leave because their bosses don't. Marines and their families deserve a balanced and quality existence, and leave is important.

The things that used to bring us together are slipping away too. Our "togetherness" is part of who we are. Marines should enjoy their lives on base and not be forced to leave to have a good time. Instead of having MPs hiding around the corner from a unit picnic, commanders should provide transportation back to the barracks.

This is not about alcohol. Our quality Marines can take care of themselves and each other. MPs have a dangerous job, but I remember when they used to help Marines. We need to get back to that sense of teamwork.

None of us wear this uniform for the paycheck. We do it for the intangibles--the sheer joy of being a Marine and the unique camaraderie when we are together. It would be a shame when we hang up the uniform for good if we couldn't say that it was a fun life.

What can you tell us about possible changes at Marine headquarters [HQMC]?

JONES: For too long we have had the mind-set that HQMC knows better than anybody else from the top down. We don't say "yes" enough when Marines call and ask for legitimate things. We are changing that concept to the extent that it needs to be changed.

I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush. Saying "yes" is our first order of business. If we cannot say "yes," we will provide the Marine with a response as to why and, better still, provide a list of alternatives before saying "no." I want a headquarters and senior leaders who listen before they talk. And we will have that.

HQMC is being re-tooled so that our air, ground, logistics, and command elements--along with our bases and stations--have advocates who watch after their interests. We also will have a "war room" to enable HQMC and our action officers to interact horizontally as well as vertically. We will reach out beyond the Corps and know what's happening in many areas. This will give us better information to focus on the important things so we can fight in the combat arena that is "inside the beltway" [i.e., within the National Capital Region].

You returned a few weeks ago from visiting your Marines in the Western Pacific. What are your overall impressions?

JONES: Our Marines deployed there are in the most dangerous area on earth. It is a very unsettled and troubled area. North Korea is in a desperate situation and is very unpredictable. Iraq is a similar concern. The Navy-Marine team is the dominant force in the theater. It is the force that will make a difference if hostilities ever break out--with Korea, for example--and the die will be cast very quickly.

I am impressed with the enthusiasm, the morale, and the job our Marines are doing over there. I am pleased about the quality of life our Marines and their families enjoy on Okinawa and in Iwakuni [Japan]. I served on Okinawa many times, and they have no complaints.

We have good leadership and quality people over there. Our Marines live in a fishbowl. They are behaving themselves, and they understand the international impact if they do not.

The Futenma air station relocation issue still must be resolved, but that is being looked at. We flew over several possible relocation sites during my recent visit to the region. I met with the governor of Okinawa, and our relations have never been better.

You have a lot on your plate in these early months as commandant. Of all the things you want to do, what is the most important?

JONES: There are three kinds of Marines: those in the operating forces, those who just left, and those who are trying to get back. The operating forces are what the Marine Corps is all about. We are going to pay more attention to them so they can stay ready and be successful. Nothing is more important than readiness so that we can do the job the nation expects of us.

What will the next four years bring?

JONES: This is a great time to be on active duty--it is a time of change, and there will be some exciting things happening in our Corps.

I can't wait to see what's going to happen in the next four years, not because I am the commandant, but because I can watch the talent and the essential goodness of this wonderful military organization. I predict that the legacy of today's Marines will be one of outstanding contribution, and one the country will be proud of.

Is there anything else you would like to say to the readers of Sea Power and the Navy League?

I think it's important for Navy League members to understand what today's Marine Corps is all about, and I appreciate Sea Power's efforts to keep them informed. I intend to keep open lines of communication with you and your readers--they remain valuable members of our Navy-Marine Corps team. 

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